Given the Santika stuff I did not want to pull any sensationalist headlines. I just don’t see the need and it does not feel right. It is a massive tragedy anyway you look at it. My deepest sympathies to anyone affected by this. I had one friend in the hospital and another friend of mine lost her friend. If you are a resident in Bangkok chances are you may know someone involved. This is how I see it - fireworks should not be used inside - under any circumstances. Yes - we could talk exits, safety standards, flammable materials, exit lighting and emergency lights. However in my opinion common sense needs to prevail - don’t do stuff that may start a fire. I think Mike, who was in the fire, has a pretty level headed view of it.
The idea that this may create a witch hunt over safety standards seems somewhat ludicrous given that I bet half of the bars, clubs, restaurants, go-gos and massage parlours don’t quite meet the grade. There are many places here because it is cheap to start businesses and the regulatory environment is somewhat laxed. This has pluses and minuses. Clearly the Santika fire is a huge minus. I don’t want to boast about the pluses but the varied and cheap nightlife is a result of this. Ultimately the owner should be held responsible since he allowed the event that caused the fire - if that is what happened. In my opinion the talk should focus on flammable buildings, flammable materials, exit lighting, emergency lighting, overcrowding and the amateurish nature of the fire/emergency care in Thailand. Interesting how that is never discussed.
The other idea that there is a conspiracy here due to the club closing and insurance money is insane to me. If it turns out the insurance was not adequate anyway how would this benefit anyone? There may not have even been any insurance. Either way I think this is a case of blind stupidity that resulted in a massive tragedy.
Obviously these are my opinions and it is early to speculate.
I will not tolerate any insensitive comments to this post but feel free to discuss. However show some respect please. I have already deleted some comments on other posts that are just out of line.
Moving on. Life does go on and it will. It is part of the healing process.
Politics. Here is one of the best articles in some time to highlight what I have always said when people harp on and on about Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai being a democratically elected government - bunch of horseshit really:
In Thailand’s case so-called democratic parliamentary elections were undermined when rampant vote-buying and mindless allegiance to Thaksin’s political monolith forced the country’s minority parties to boycott the election. Thaksin went ahead anyhow, claiming a landslide. It was Team Yellow who finally saved the day by calling the elections non-democratic – which they were since they were won by a single party and artificial spin-offs. But the boycott was not the reason cited by Thai courts for declaring the elections null and void – rather it was placement of voting booths which gave pro-Thaksin officials an easy view of how voters cast their votes. That is, they were being monitored to ensure that they voted for Thaksin as they were either paid to do or had indicated they would do.
Thailand is a country full of promises and potential, but much more full of illusion and deception, and nearly devoid of transparency. International election observers can stand by and witness something they think resembles democracy, but miss all the local nuances that undermine independent thought and create greed and disparity. These are some of the faults in the Thai political system. They are not faults of the country having experienced a silent coups so much as they are the faults of a society that has not been given the tools that will allow it to create a genuine democratic electoral process.
The irony in all of this, as it was in Algeria, is that it took a military takeover to expose the illusion. Or, the illusion should have been exposed.
Now Team Red is having a turn at the protesting thing - much in the same way Thaksin was elected through vote buying the protesters are only protesting due to money as well. Seems the numbers are dwindling a bit because the pay is not so great:
Its numbers have decreased in recent days and some participants grumbled that organizers were not paying them enough or providing free food and entertainment during rallies.
It is common practice in Thailand by all sides to beef up their demonstrations by paying anyone willing to join in. Free food and live music are also often offered.
My feeling is Team Red is not going to have the same long leash afforded to them like the PAD did - notice they are already getting accused of things:
The United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) has been condemned for placing a picture of Team Yellow alongside an offensive slogan.
Its leaders could be charged with lese majeste.
The picture was placed next to a slogan reading “Privileged People … Thief” in the background on the UDD’s rally stage outside parliament yesterday.However, it was later removed from the stage.
The lack of a REAL high season is started to take its toll. Let me be clear on what I mean. Usually the high season brings in the extra dough so that places can survive the low season or so that new bars can get ahead of the game. Yes people are coming to Thailand but nothing close to a normal high season.
Lower Suk is starting to see some places close. The dim sum joint is done and that pizza joint next door is hurting. The new Champagne Charlies is supposedly already for sale. My take was it is on the wrong side of the street and it is a concept looking for a customer base. I also never hear anyone talking about it. Has anyone checked it out? I don’t say any of this to poke at anyone - obviously we are all feeling this. Just keeping track.
One has to assume that if Singapore is going through this - that Thailand will go negative:
Singapore predicted on Friday that its economy could contract by up to 2 per cent this year, threatening the city state with its worst downturn in nearly 50 years and placing it near the bottom of Asian economic performance in 2009.
I don’t plan on covering any entertainment news or personal exploits at this stage. I did hit the new Narz and will write that up soon. Will overview the rise and fall of the makeup counter girl. Phuket revelations soon and well - other things.
Word is BBB will have a massive post coming about his trip outside of Bkk. Bravo.
The entrance to RCA has those massive drape/curtains as you walk in, will be interesting to see if they are still around for long
Im not one for conspiracy theories, although the insurance job did cross my mind, then i read on another website that the insurance on the place expired ages ago.
I finally managed to track down a girl who i was convinced would of been there, which is a massive weight off my mind.
Quite a few uni girls i know say they had friends/fellow students @Santika, that either got burnt, or sadly passed away. Shit news
View all comments by Young Penfold
yp - good to hear.
to explore the insurance conspiracy thing more it would seem that burning your own place down on the last night would not really get you much since generally there would be investigations and a lot of clause regarding such tactics. There is not usually a cash payout either but only the ability to rebuild and usually in the same spot. net result is I dont think it would even work.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I have checked out Champagne Charlies, kind of semi-accidentally. I thought is was a steakhouse. Went in had a drink, very nice atmosphere, but a bit sedate.
It does seem to be in the wrong place. It has the feel of a place that Sinatra would have hung out. I think it would work better in Silom, but that’s just an opinion. It is a G-Club, the girls were all very nice (the place was deserted so I’m assuming it wasn’t my charming personality), but they weren’t the best lookers in the world. All in all, had one drink and went in search of a steak.
View all comments by The Soi Lawyer
For those who want to see: New Year’s Eve
And, please don’t miss to read comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrZ56-47TWg&feature=channel_page
View all comments by TA
With regard to politics, I would like to share the following articles with you. Thank you.
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/12/31/the-red-army-at-the-gates-of-parliament/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/27/thailand-monarchy?commentpage=1
View all comments by TA
i know. the fire was the end to what was just a f*ckin’ weird year.
I wanna’ say it blew but at the same time a bundle was lost by going long Washington Mutual, health is intact and lots of great ‘nani was had.
truly, yang and ying.
standing in front of RB IV last night planning how i’d get out if smoke was smelt, i saw thai guys bouncing on the roof of lollipop and pretty lady chasing 20s that crazy, bandana wearing farang has been tossing into the air. that’s the escape hatch, i said. over the rail and onto the tin…
View all comments by jack dawson
RE: insurance. One gets as much if the club burns down empty as when it’s full, and if it’s empty there is a 0% chance of going to jail. Which is why insurance fires usually happen when a place is empty.
Very sad situation.
View all comments by Tosh
One never knows. Like that person who is late and misses a flight that crashes. My GF’s brother a Prosecutor, was going to go to Sanita after a lot of pressure from his friend also a Prosecutor. But the bad news was that he was behind in his studies so he reluctently opted out at the very last moment. His Prosecutor friend perished. Sure he knows that he is lucky but even that makes him even more distraught somehow thinking he could have helped his freind survive if he went. One never knows the good from the bad.
View all comments by 8 Ball
I remember a few years ago in the US a fire broke out (pyrotechnics gone wrong) in a club while a rock band played (Great White???) and a lot died.
That club may not have been up to scratch with regards to fire regs, but I’d assume it was much safer than most Thai clubs..yet people still died.
Did the sprinkler system fail in the Bangkok fire?
With regards to the PAD.
They claimed they were against the current version of Thai democracy.
As we know the new boss hasn’t been elected by the electorate. How come the PAD still aren’t protesting? If elections were called tomorrow, it would be the same system - a system they are against.
Shows what a joke they are.
And I don’t support the other side either.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket
The opinion piece in the Guardian was a string of inanities and misleading ideas. A person who knows nothing of Thai institutions might have read it as a serious piece of journalism, as it had a scholarly tone, but it was mostly tripe. There is a good reason why it was published as a ‘comments off’ piece… the author would have been ripped to shreds.
View all comments by Werewolf
Tosh is correct: “for-the-insurance-$” fires are generally conducted at times when the property is deserted. The original Lido cinema in Siam Square was torched in ‘93, no casualties. Siam Center had a fire in ‘95 or ‘96 which took out the middle part of the mall (the original Siam-area mall, built in the 70s). Again, no deaths or injuries, just swift rebuilding.
Could it be mere coincidence that by then the Skytrain-construction was well underway and property values in the area were skyrocketing?
It seems that the Santika fire occurred under different circumstances, and sad ones. Condolences to all affected.
JtB
View all comments by Jack the Bat
tsl - do tell more. the girls were on the 2nd floor? the 1st floor is more of a pub/restaurant? trying to grok the concept.
jd -sounds like a good plan. u r right - still a good place to be but I hope 09 is better than 08. peace.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Jack Dawson,
Long Washington Mutual? That’s more risky than doing a bargirl bareback. What were you thinking?
-J
View all comments by jeezo
Hello All.
I hope you don’t mind me using this (my first visit I think) as an online media space to share what I hope to do. Apologies if it comes across as crass. That’s not my intent.
I thought today I’d pop over to Samitivej and see if there are any victims who could use a visit. If that doesn’t work out I’ll go to the other hospitals all week until I can get an idea of how many are affected by this awful start to the year, and then figure out if anything intelligent can be done under the notion that as clubbers we are a fairly unusual yet sizable demographic, with some simple behavoural stuff that outlines what we do. I hope to use some clubs as mediators and/or instigators for connecting us all and I have spoken to managers of a bunch of places over the weekend. Just introductions and let them know my intent this week.
I do know our crowd. I’m close to realising that I have failed to shake off the self indulgence of clubbing despite my 40th approaching. I’d hazard a guess I like it more now then when I was younger.
Howwever outside of the ubiquitous bad eggs that exist in all walks of life, the clubbing crowd are a simple and reasonable bunch.
We like a varying amounts of alchohol, love music, like to look nice, enjoy people, like to dance and in all likelihood have some generosity of spirit that extends to keeping cool in packed conditions, cutting slack on mistakes and hoping we can get that mystical moment when the DJ and the crowd are in unison, somehow willing the things along to a level that if seen in isolation doeesn’t make sense. It doesn’t always happen, that magic sweet spot but when it does it’s special and clubbers know it.
I believe that we have more in common irrespective of where we choose to enjoy our time than what sets us apart. Style of club, music, location or crowd. Differences yes but more commonalities. Which may enable us to be a bit human and see what we can do.
Getting back on track I’d best leave my number if anyone can help such as suggest hospitals, people or information to keep me going. I’m determined to use this week to meet people and identify if need be, any issues of support or help.
Then I want to put something forward. Perhaps a proposal based on what I’ve discovered. I feel so bad about what happened on New Years Eve, and and of course talk is cheap but this can’t go on can it? I’m not happy. I could use your support if you are of a likemind. I don’t mind a struggle if it’s worth it. This is. So a proposal that might extend on ways to help or take a didactic approach to making things right. Ir realise that might sound like I’m trying to be clever, but actually I can talk pretty fluently about ways to enforce outside of existing agencies. Who evidentally don’t function. That and I don’t want to be explicit about intent yet. So forgive me on that one.
It’s the 21st century. Is there any excuse for ensuring that the knowledge and morality required not to kill one’s customers is self evident in terms of club owner responsibilities. I’d like to avoid any talk of deliberate homicide because whatever the case, the insanity of sparklers and pyrotechnic displays near combustible material is the issue. Sociapathic contributions are not going to be of much use to me. Justice isn’t so weighty as getting some change is it?
But first things first homework and time maybe with burns victims. I guess it’s going to be a difficult week. I realise the temptaton is to form a view on the view that I’m trying to form but let me do my thing and then I’ll be happy to report or feedback.
Charles Frith Bangkok +66 82 0138 924
cefrith at hotmail dot com
Thanks for your time.
View all comments by Charles Frith
Not all at once OK?
View all comments by Charles Frith
2 people who were in Santika NYE reported on Thaivisa they saw fireworks launced from a nearby building that may have landed on the roof of Santika.
SSB: Curious as to where the Dim Sum and Pizza shop are located? Also, does the Mango’s business license (or other regulation) specify an occupancy limit for your bar?
JD: SSB and PMMP might remember a couple of years ago, the Thai police raided a late night card game at NEP, and a young Thai man tried escaping by running across the roof above the Cathouse, However, he slipped and fell to his death.
I recall seeing the police chase some flower kids into NEP, and the kids escaped by going up the steps next to Lucky Lukes, and out the window on the landing between the ground and 2nd floors. Funny sight.
View all comments by dj
dj - between soi 3 and soi 5. I don’t think any normal biz or bar license does at all. I think it is only when you get your food license do they get into it and I can’t explain why on the blog.
I remember that incident indeed.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
@Charles: I wouldn’t take the lack of response personally, but I don’t sense there are more than a few clubbers here (at least in the sense you mean). And I’m also not totally clear, based on your post, of what contribution/information/opinion you are looking for.
View all comments by Combover
co - I am not sure what charles is asking for.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
@dj
“I recall seeing the police chase some flower kids into NEP, and the kids escaped by going up the steps next to Lucky Lukes, and out the window on the landing between the ground and 2nd floors. Funny sight.”
Yes those little fuckers have light fingers. I caught one trying to pickpocket me, buy pressing up against me with the flowers with one hand while the other hand slips into your pocket.
If I was drunk I would have lost whatever I had in the pocket.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket