The FARANG Speaks 2 Much (tfs2m)

47 Responses to “Mango Weekly - 01 January 2009”

1. 1 ATM Jan 1st, 2009 at 9:35 pm

   Amen.
   View all comments by ATM

2. 2 UnCochinoWetback Jan 1st, 2009 at 9:48 pm

   so sad to hear about this. in a year many people in thailand thought it could not get much worse this is the cherry on top of a shitty year. condolences to everyone affected by this tragedy.
   View all comments by UnCochinoWetback

3. 3 I Phukit Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:11 pm

   A terrible tragedy indeed. I wish this new year to bring hope and promise to everyone
   View all comments by I Phukit

4. 4 DrSchnauzert Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:31 pm

   Respectful post.

   My sincere condolences.
   I keep on thinking about this tragic event and seeing the tv images all day. R.I.P.
   View all comments by DrSchnauzert

5. 5 Catman Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:43 pm

   My heart and deepest thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims of last nights tragedy. R.I.P. I wish the speedest of recoveries to those injured.
   View all comments by Catman

6. 6 nurseRon Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:53 pm

   Namo Amitabaha Buddha.
   View all comments by nurseRon

7. 7 redstar Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 am

   May God rest the souls of those poor people who perished last night and bring a speedy recovery to the many other victims, and comfort to the families and friends of those involved.

   We all value the relatively free-and-easy Bangkok nightlife, but there is no excuse for such lax safety procedures. It serves no-one, except the money-grubbing mob who run all too many of these clubs. The only safe thing is not to go near them.
   View all comments by redstar

8. 8 Tosh Jan 2nd, 2009 at 1:03 am

   Very sad. I was at a show at the Bowery Ballroom a couple of years ago with a friend who is a fireman. He almost left. The place was so packed we could barely move and he said to me, ‘They have two doors at the back of this room that will fit one person at a time. If there’s a fire here we’re all dead.’ I guess just know where those doors are if you’re in a club and hope you can get out quickly.
   View all comments by Tosh

9. 9 Pattaya Ghost Jan 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 am

   I thought Thailand had finally decided to get serious about club safety after the Route 999 Thai/Russian disco burned to the ground here a couple years ago. That fire killed several coyote dancers preparing for work, although the club was still closed to the public.

   Following that there was serious talk about upgrading fire safety and even Lucifer’s on Walking Street, a death trap defined with its sets of tricky rounded steps required just to get in and out of the narrow main entrance, managed to put in some additional and marked fire exits.

   Lucifer, Marine and, now, the new Insomnia and Republica all have just one main entace with the back of the club hanging out over the water. Marine is the safest of the bunch — at least from appearances — with exits out the back that lead downstairs. Lucifer is still truly frightening when packed wall-to-wall. I nearly fall down the steps when sober. I’d hate to navigate them in a stampeded.

   I can’t dicuss Republica, as it just opened, and will not comment on Insomnia as the management is more incluined to have critics beaten up (or threatened to have killed) if anything potentially harmful to revenue is discussed.
   View all comments by Pattaya Ghost

10. 10 pmmp Jan 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 am

    Reports of a fire on Soi Cowboy right now. A friend sms’d saying it was only one bar but didn’t know which one. He said it was near the front and that power was out and there are people everywhere. Just hope it’s small and nobody got hurt.
    View all comments by pmmp

11. 11 pmmp Jan 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 am

    Friend just sms’d that it was Rawhide and that nobody got hurt and it’s under control. He said many people still there looking on.
    View all comments by pmmp

12. 12 Tinx Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 am

    What a tragedy. I can’t remember when I’ve heard of any good news coming out of Thailand last. I hope this new year will bring some good news. I wish you all the best in ‘09!
    View all comments by Tinx

13. 13 Calvin Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:48 am

    Too bad safety standards are still very poor in the clubs of Thailand. Reminds me of the horrible fire in America a few years ago - I think it was in Jersey - where people were killed due to fireworks in the club which started a fire. With only one way out, there is bound to be a mob scene. Hopefully this will push the government to upgrade the regulations
    View all comments by Calvin

14. 14 ATM Jan 2nd, 2009 at 7:32 am

    Stupid…just plain stupid.
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f67_1230832702
    View all comments by ATM

15. 15 Dave Jan 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 am

    Calvin@….Just perusing thenation link…that really compounds the tradgedy, as if it needed any sort of compounding…apparently there were 2 or 3 other exits? But personally, I think the police commisioner and deputy head commissioner should be fired on the spot…one says that it’s not arson..with no feasible base in fact, with the fire still smouldering….another says that the victims are mostly foreigners, from nepal, japan and austria…?

    Horrible tradgedy, but the longer those two hold anything more substantial than a broom, the more likely it will happen again.
    View all comments by Dave

16. 16 sideshowBOB Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 am

    dave - people are quite sure the pyrotechnic show started the fire in the ceiling.

    nor is anyone claiming it is all foreigners. santika is usually a 70% thai 30% foreigner mix - I am sure the body count will look the same.

    a lot of clubs could have this problem - I think santika is one of the better ones but have a show inside that can start a fire pretty much takes the cake.
    View all comments by sideshowBOB

17. 17 pmmp Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am

    On the subject of the Soi Cowboy fire, the Nation just reported on it here.

    A fire broke out at a pub on Soi Cowboy early Friday. Nobody was injured.

    Police said fire fighters spent about 15 minutes to put out the blaze after it broke out at the Raw Hyde Pub at 2:30 am.

    On the Santika fire, one of the first Nation alerts was a head Police guy saying that mostly foreigners were killed. I kind of had the same reaction as Dave. Just found the link here.

    Deputy Police Commissioner-General Pol Lt-Gen Jongrak Juthanon said most of those killed in the Santika Pub fire were foreigners.

    He said they were tourists from Nepal, Austria and Japan.

    View all comments by pmmp

18. 18 Pattaya Ghost Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Interview with survivor Alex Wargeki of the UK by Andrew Drummond. Pulled form his blog, but published in 6 UK papers.

    “I had been to the club many times and went to the New Year’s Party because the club was closing and it was their ‘Goodbye Santika’ party.

    “I guess I always knew the place was a bit of a death trap. But that’s like so many places here. That’s Thailand. You come to expect it. I have worked here for four years and got used to it. Even some shopping malls are accidents waiting to happen.

    Apprently his hospital bill is already 1,500 pounds. He said he hopes the club owner pays…

    Wouldn’t hold my breath for that.

    http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/01/02/saved-by-the-hand-of-an-angel-bangkok-nightclub-fire/
    View all comments by Pattaya Ghost

19. 19 8 Ball Jan 2nd, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    After this terrible and unecessary tragedy life does go on. With this in mind I wonder if the owners will open the new club. With the Thais being extremely superstitious certainly continuing the name Santika will cause fear and bring images of ghosts to the Thais. But if the new club opens under a new name will these same fears and images follow it and thus doom it.

    Just one passing thought as I asked myself “what happens now?” while I was sadly reflecting on this tragedy
    View all comments by 8 Ball

20. 20 ATM Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    The current site will have lots of ghosts.
    I can’t see the Thais going on that property for a generation or two now.
    View all comments by ATM

21. 21 sideshowBOB Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    atm - the place will not be a club again. they had already lost the lease and a mixed retail/condo was planned. obviously bkk needs more retail space and condos.

    question is will they be able to go ahead with the new project given the economic environment and now the fire.
    View all comments by sideshowBOB

22. 22 Bubba Jan 2nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Some nice research in this article by AP writer DENIS D. GRAY:

    http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Asia/AS_Thailand_Nightclub_Fire.html

    A number of Thai and Chinese stereotypes come to mind after reading this and other articles. I hope “businessman” Wisuth Setsawat loses everything he has and spends a good number of nights in jail, as it’s apparent he used every means available to get and keep his club open instead of following the laws which apply to nightclubs under the Building Control Act.
    View all comments by Bubba

23. 23 Young Penfold Jan 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Perhaps its just me, but i just find it cliche all the people coming out saying ‘i knew it was a deathrap’ AFTER it happened. Bit like when a celbrity dies and everyone comes out of the

    Ive had a nightmare getting through to a girl im due to be staying with on my return for the last 3 days. Anyone know a list of injured as well as dead?
    View all comments by Young Penfold

24. 24 Bubba Jan 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    Penfold, try this:

    http://www.santikaclub.com/webboard/santika_post_forum.php?groupid=1&forum_id=600
    View all comments by Bubba

25. 25 Uncle Dave Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Stayed at the Nana as usual last year and there was a fire alarm, it went on for more than the time for a false alarm so we all duly went to the Fire Exits.
    About half way down the escape stairs they were completly blocked by refuse bags, bottles, boxes and general debris, that we could not get past.
    A bit panicky by now we realised that we could not even re enter the hotel as the doors were slam locked from the inside.
    Luckily the bell stopped ringing and someone openned a door into which we all went, very scared.
    I went to reception to complain and was passed to a member of Housekeeping!!!!
    After a brief bit of top blowing I managed to get someone to sort it out. As usual, smiles all around me and business as usual……..
    Sometimes this country beggars belief:
    Sit near the doors, avoid floors 2 and 3 in NEP and stay on a low floor in your hotel.
    No one gives a fuck about your safety.
    Condolances to all involved in that tragic episode.
    Uncle Dave.
    View all comments by Uncle Dave

26. 26 maximus Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    just hope and pray for all thai and thailand lovers for a better year ahead…… godbless
    View all comments by maximus

27. 27 Brewsterbudgen Jan 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    I seem to remember a similar discussion on fire escape routes out of NEP when the BM was there. Isn’t there an escape route from the 2nd floor somewhere? I’m sure it was one of the BM guys who wrote about it. Would be nice to know.
    View all comments by Brewsterbudgen

28. 28 Brewsterbudgen Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Is there an alcohol ban for the Governor election - I’ve read elsewhere there is, this weekend and next!
    View all comments by Brewsterbudgen

29. 29 Phoenix Jan 2nd, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Brew: Here is your former escape route (now defunct due to rebuilding):

    http://www.tfs2m.com/main/2008/05/13/the-keystone-fireman/

    But… anyone who doesnt like crowded places with just one tiny exit shouldn’t visit Thailand’s nightlife scene anyway. Life is about taking risks, isnt it?

    I loved Santika. May those young souls find peace. My honest condolences too.
    View all comments by Phoenix

30. 30 tosh Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Any crowded nightclub is a deathtrap, there’s no way it can’t be. I’ve been in plenty of clubs (in the US) where the only exit was down a flight of stairs to a single door. But even the ones that are spiffy and up to code, if you can’t get everyone out in sixty seconds without them panicking you’re out of luck.

    One of the reasons I’ve never been to NEP is because the first time I went in and had a beer I thought, ‘Well, I’d certainly not like have to get out of this place quickly.’

    Still, terribly sad for the people involved.
    View all comments by tosh

31. 31 Intermezzo Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Damn, 2008 was really a shitty year for LOS. I really hope 2009 will bring better news.

    @ Brewsterbudgen
    The NEP (Nana Escape Plan) was mentioned in this post :http://www.tfs2m.com/main/2008/05/06/free-music-free-thai-lessons-and-the-lucky-10000/
    Its tattooed on pmmp’s back, with the directions in burmese
    View all comments by Intermezzo

32. 32 naturalgame Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:43 am

    @YP - Sorry you are hear your uncertain situation, must be stressful.

    I still don’t really get how a whole building can catch fire so quickly, 8-ball mentioned something about his experience in the other thread. Anyway, tried to picture what I would do and still really don’t know, other than hopefully whatever is the right thing.
    View all comments by naturalgame

33. 33 pmmp Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:53 am

    Thanks Intermezzo, you saved me the search time. I have to add to it though. If the fire is on the old Big Mango Bar side, I advise against following the directions.
    View all comments by pmmp

34. 34 Tosh Jan 3rd, 2009 at 3:27 am

    @ NG - one of the dive bars I used to frequent was an old school fireman’s bar. They all said the same thing. A room can fill with smoke to the point where you can’t see in shockingly little time. Seconds sometimes if there is a lot of feul, a few minutes at the most if there is less. Add to that panic and people trying to get out the same exits and I think it’s surprising this doesn’t happy more often.
    View all comments by Tosh

35. 35 Young Penfold Jan 3rd, 2009 at 3:38 am

    @Bubba - Whats that link saying? It wont open for shit
    View all comments by Young Penfold

36. 36 Werewolf Jan 3rd, 2009 at 4:05 am

    YP: I modified the link by taking some of the crap off from the end… basically there has been such heavy traffic on the site that it is no longer accessible.
    View all comments by Werewolf

37. 37 Werewolf Jan 3rd, 2009 at 4:10 am

    An article with a lot of interesting info about Santika strung together:

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/135688/pub-owner-faces-charges-of-flouting-law
    View all comments by Werewolf

38. 38 Uncle Dave Jan 3rd, 2009 at 4:13 am

    “But… anyone who doesnt like crowded places with just one tiny exit shouldn’t visit Thailand’s nightlife scene anyway. Life is about taking risks, isnt it?”

    Unbelievable……………don’t you have any loved ones?
    View all comments by Uncle Dave

39. 39 Bubba Jan 3rd, 2009 at 8:12 am

    YP

    It had the list of all the people injured and the hospital each was located and a list of the identified dead as of Thursday.

    It was on Santika’s webboard and I see that their account has now been suspended, which is why you get the 404 error.
    View all comments by Bubba

40. 40 Bubba Jan 3rd, 2009 at 8:18 am

    Try this YP:

    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/02/national/national_30092299.php

    “The names of the dead or injured can be checked by calling (02) 381 2285, (02) 381 8930, extensions 70156.”
    View all comments by Bubba

41. 41 redstar Jan 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 am

    @ Phoenix
    “But… anyone who doesnt like crowded places with just one tiny exit shouldn’t visit Thailand’s nightlife scene anyway. Life is about taking risks, isnt it?”

    I don’t know whether this is your attempt at humour, or maybe you just had a bad night, but IMHO life is about taking calculated risks.

    As just about everyone else here has agreed anyone but a complete eejut can calculate that these fire-related risks are pretty damn severe, and more to the point the criminal negligence of club owners is the root cause.

    But, if it’s unbridled risk that you seek, why not blindfold yourself every time you cross the road?

    Meanwhile, if the rest of us make a point in future of asking about the fire escape provisions on entry to every club it will start to get a message through to the greedy bastards who run them that we are not just a bunch of sex maniacs who will risk all for a beer and a squeeze … and if they cannot or will not tell you, then just walk. This is not a one-club town!

    I don’t think that this is an over-reaction. We all know that the incidence of fire is quite low, but the issue is to get an adequate safety level in place and with the lack of effective government action it is up to us, the punters, to make the point.
    View all comments by redstar

42. 42 Werewolf Jan 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Some additional perspective from a Bangkok Post editorial:

    Bangkok does have a fire safety code governing all public and private buildings and inspections are supposed to be carried out regularly, so why, once again, the apparent lack of enforcement? Sprinkler systems are mandatory as are fire exits and this was not an old building. Eyewitnesses point to all the classic signs of the club being a firetrap — massive overcrowding coupled with an absence of proper fire exits creating text book conditions for a deadly stampede. Dangerous special effects, involving sparklers and other indoor fireworks, which, it seems, ignited a stage curtain and set fire to the soundproofed roof. Unlicensed and uninsured premises. Poor access for emergency vehicles with routes blocked by club goers fleeing in their cars.

    Although we have witnessed scenes of horror before, there has been nothing on this scale since Pattaya’s 17-storey Royal Jomtien Resort caught fire on July 11, 1997 and took the lives of 91 people. In that instance fire exits had been locked which prevented guests and staff from fleeing the burning building. More recently, eight people died and 58 others were injured when fire engulfed the Route 999 disco in Pattaya. There was no escape because emergency doors had been locked. The building had been illegally modified and was being used in open defiance of a ban. Fifteen months ago, 16 guests were injured when Bangkok’s Mandarin Hotel erupted in a spectacular blaze. Last month a shopping mall was gutted in Trat.

    All this pales in comparison with the Kader toy factory fire in Nakhon Pathom on May 10, 1993, a year after our present prime minister first became an MP. Many of the 188 who died in the world’s worst factory blaze and the 469 who were injured were young women from impoverished families. Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed concern at the time, and he expressed outright horror on visiting the scene of the Santika inferno on Thursday morning.

    http : // http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/9042/an-unhappy-new-year...
    View all comments by Werewolf

43. 43 sideshowBOB Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    bb - normally there would be an alcohol ban but I think given the low tourist season, the extra new year’s holiday and now the santika mess - they are in no mood to dampen business any further. as I stated before the men in brown are now feeling the pinch.

    tosh - that is my point. doing a witch hunt on exits and stuff is not the issue in my book. things that are may be overcrowding, the use of fireworks inside, no safety lights and the lack of decent emergency response in thailand.

    i- me too
    View all comments by sideshowBOB

44. 44 Young Penfold Jan 3rd, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    @Redstar - I get the feeling if you go from club to club accessing each place for safety and such, and moving on accordingly, you’ll have some really long and uneventful nights
    View all comments by Young Penfold

45. 45 redstar Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    @YP

    kk, but it beats a short & eventful one!

    I’m not advocating a full H&SE audit, just a rather pointed questioning of the receptionist, and a healthy dose of scepticism if they seem non-plussed or disdainful in their response.

    As in all these situations, there is now an all-too-short period where this issue is ‘headline’ and maybe something will happen if enough fuss is made. If the critical time passes then nowt will change and it’s just a matter of time until the situation is repeated ….. and we will all go around the circle of angst and hand-wringing once more.

    88
    View all comments by redstar

46. 46 Ze ugly German Jan 8th, 2009 at 3:11 am

    I was in the Big Mango some days ago. The burger tasted good and the chubby bargirl next to me was a “good talk”. But why is smoking prohibited while you can smoke in any other place on soi 4 ? Start bribing the cops !
    View all comments by Ze ugly German

47. 47 sideshowBOB Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    zug - nothing to do with bribing. smoking is prohibited and it is easier to start a bar and keep it non-smoking then to try and then roll it back. over time the smoking thing will only get more and more enforced.
    View all comments by sideshowBOB

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