Nana could use a good story and apart from the Hollywood comeback on the 3rd floor it would seem Mandarin is the other comeback kid. Great music, spunky girls, partial nudity, peek-a-boo second floor ala Baccara and a general good party vibe. The downside of Mandarin though has always been the lack of any decent nighttime management and the security team that is connected with the guys that hang at the foot of the forever broken escalator. I myself have dealt with them back in the glorious Mango days and now it seems a unsuspecting punter has as well.
Back in the early Mango days we used to sweat over every little detail in hopes that we could increase our trade. Keep in mind that when we opened we knew what we were getting into. A hard corner, intermittent escalator, and one of the biggest worries was the Silver Dragon and Mandarin employees who would block the corner trying to push people into their bars. Right away we tried the nice way. Talked to Nana management. They said it was not their concern. Great. Thanks for caring. Then we went to Mandarin management who pretended to care and promised they would do something about it but never did. Then we decided to play the game. Do what you do in Thailand. Take matters into your own hands. So we paid another security guard to constantly come over and police the corner and keep the touts from blocking our corner and allow people to come up the escalator without getting mobbed. Keep in mind - years ago when the plaza was properly managed - bar employees were not allowed to hang outside their bar bugging people. One of the dominant plaza bar owners, big john, made sure it was enforced. I think it was a good thing.
It worked for a while. We kept the corner clear and did not ruffle too many feathers. Then it seemed Mandarin decided to bring a few more guys up and man the corner rather than using the girls. Exactly what customers want. Low-life Thai guys blocking and trying to coerce people into a bar. Nana is for looking at girls folks - not guys. So one day I am coming up the escalator and was basically completely blocked off from going right into the Mango. They assumed I was a customer and they would get me to go straight. Well fuck it. I went right. Right through the guy and kept walking. I did not push him but I mmoved him out of my way. He did not fall but he got the point. He was blocking my way and in theory my potential customers. That pissed me off more than anything. As I walked away he told me to fuck off and said I should watch my back. I lost it. Went right up in his face and told him if he needed to talk to me he should do it to my face. I also told him to get out of the way. He pushed me around a bit and pretended he was going to kick my ass. I knew he would not since he knew the pecking order in the plaza for security guys and in moments our backup came around the corner and had it out with him. After that he backed off, the corner mostly cleared up for a few months and he stayed out of my face. Sure, I was scared of him but not enough to discontinue going about my business.
I laid this background on you because when a reader sent in his experiences on New Year’s Eve in Mandarin I knew right away it was very possible that it happened. The Mandarin brutes are notorious for starting shit in the plaza. They get drunk, they fight over the girls and they tend to get in it with each other. These are the same guys who drive their motorcycles out of the plaza at night drunk and practically run into anything in their way. I have seen the one dude wreck his bike by running it into a car as he exited the plaza without stopping before entering soi 4. These guys are idiots and looking to start shit.
So RRR, a longtime reader and sometimes commenter, sent us an email saying that a group of his mates where in Mandarin on New Year’s Eve and getting pissed. As many do in a go-go. There was a dispute over one drink, 125 baht, and the staff was claiming the drink was not paid for. The group of customers though all claimed it did. Supposedly that was the end of it. Yet when the customer who had the dispute went to the bathroom he was jumped by the Mandarin boys, taken downstairs and roughed up. Without any chance of discussing the issue or even alerted that there was such a big problem. RRR happened to be going out and saw it all and helped to break it up. His mate was bloodied up and decided just to go home.
I had no intention of writing this up but I think it does warrant some discussion and this is not just about Nana but frankly these stories are not as frequently heard on Cowboy. These security guys in general are a joke. I can tell you there is nothing special behind the system of Thai security guards in and around go-gos. They are generally paid worse than the DJs. Thy are basically the lowest paid guys in the whole bar system. They drink incessantly, they try to shag as many of the girls in the go-go as they can and they are rarely ever managed. So they tend to jump in when they want and rarely think about the actual customer situation. The only reason we ever had one around or on-call at the Mango was to back us up in case we got into it with a customer. That was it. When the police come it is easier to explain the situation if a Thai guy was involved in the altercation otherwise it may look like 2 Farangs going at it. However the Police in my opinion will generally side with the Thai guys. In most cases the lowly security guard. That being said there are some nice ones out there who try to keep the customers out of harms way and who help to ensure the peace. Then there are others who are looking for a fight.
I think in any case when something like this happens, customers should get the management and the Police right away. In my mind it is the only sensible option. The other thing to remember is if you do have a problem you should try to deal with it as sensibly as possible in the most face saving way. Whether you are right or wrong. These people are not always playing fair and right or wrong is not always their main concern.
RRR - can jump in on this thread. I won’t let the comment stream turn this into a bash Mandarin session but I think these run-ins with the so called Thai security guards in places like Nana is a real issue and one to be considered from time to time.
Police Info:
Tourist Police in the Sathorn-Silom and central Sukhumvit areas, tel. 1155 (free call from any phone) or 678-6800
- Regular police everywhere, emergency number 191 or 123 (free call from any phone)
Those fookers really used to piss me off! Every time I (walked) up the esclators, they would grab me and try and shove me in their place. After 2 years of loyalty to the Mango (free drink?) they got the picture.
I often wonder about the consequences of getting in a ruck in Bangkok. Being a short-arse… I seem to be an easy target… but I tend not to walk away from a rumble.
I will have to learn to leave it to the management to help out?
- assuming I’m not the trouble making asshole?!
View all comments by Daywalker
I’m not one for paying bribes or protection money, but I live in the West, so it’s generally not done (and illegal to do so). In Thailand, bribes and money on the side are the norm. Just a thought - did you ever think about paying a couple of cops from the area to hang out on that corner and watch your back ? Sure, they tend to side with the Thais, but my belief is that if they are being paid, they will at least keep order (they do have families to feed). I have always thought (and I am probably wrong) that if you got to be friends with a higher-up in the police dept, you may get a bit more protection. I realize this is something you probably didn’t want to do, since now you’ve added another headache regarding keeping the police happy. Would this have helped ?
View all comments by Calvin
Just wondering if you ever saw a ferang lay one of these walking turds out?
Despite the empty theory that EVERY thai is a tree kicking Muay-Thai expert, still prob not worth chinning one of these lowlifes.
I nearly slapped a grimey tuktuk driver in Patpong once - Lucky i didnt (lucky for him or me, i cant decide)
View all comments by Penfold
So, I’m sorry, why would I think about WALKING up that escalator and going right into Mandarin instead of left towards RB IV?
View all comments by Jack Dawson
c - just the mere fact that you are in nana means u pay the police but they don’t get involved in these types of issues. They see it as a plaza issue. Our individual contact was ex military and he helped out and watched our back. however if the plaza does not enforce any rules on these bars then it is basically like pissing in a strong wind. this is why IMHO the plaza is falling apart. Higher ups at lumpini could really not be bothered about the escalator issue.
p - one may get into a fight with these guys and win but just for that day. One night when u are walking home, maybe 2 months later, you will get jumped by six of his friends and you won’t win that time. There really is no reason to tangle with these guys unless you are defending yourself. long term these are fights you won’t win.
View all comments by smitty
I once was overcharged 400 Baht at a Patpong Gogo for “looking”. After refusing to pay I faced three secreaming girls and a security guys with lots of body tension standing in front of me. I said zo the bouncer “Ok, let’s go outside”. He luckily understood it as an invitation for talking, not a fight. I gave him 200 Baht and never went to Patpong again. One more reason for making Patpong my no-go area was a violent ladyboy story… but I mentioned that here somewhere before.
In the above mentioned story I would have paid the 125 Baht and if I had felt ripped off, simply never had returned to Mandarin. But if the service stuff played happy but was seeking redemption through those thugs, fuck them. And beating up a customer for 125 Baht (or most other reasons I can think of) is just outrageous.
I had the Mandarin high up on my To Do list for my next visit… not anymore…
What I usually do in Gogo’s is to have a chat with the Mamasan and/or invite her for a drink or at least have some conversation with a service stuff like cracking jokes, bying a drink, with lot’s of laughing and simply making both sides feel comfortable.
Besides usually having lot’s of fun doing this it maybe has prevented me from ever being overcharged in a Gogo ever after that Patpong incident… If you behave decent and one or more of the stuff like you, they will less likely give you bullshit.
I also look at the bill almost each time a new drink is brought to me. And I do it in a way that the service stuff notices it, so they now I am aware of whats going on.
And whatever I do, I try to do it with a smile
Yes, right or wrong is not a question one should ponder on in Thailand.
View all comments by Phoenix
Phoenix - you have a few really good points - I also try to chat up the Mamasan and buy her a drink. Doesn’t guarantee anything but I do believe that you’re less likely to be ripped off if the Mamasan is your friend. Also buying your service lady a drink is a step in the right direction.
But I have learned to simply pay for each drink as it comes - check the cost then pay right there. More difficult to get ripped off if you don’t allow the bins to stack up.
View all comments by Calvin
One of Patpong very few redeeming (sp?) qualities is that some of the bars (i think maybe Kings Group???) charge you and make you sign per drink so u dont get your pants pulled down when it comes time to leave.
View all comments by Penfold
p = patpong feels like one big king’s group bar these days but yes. They make u sign for each drink order.
View all comments by smitty
Although I once saw Boss Hog face a pack of these douchebags down in much the same way Smitty did and with more or less the same results, I humbly suggest that this is as about far as it should ever go. These guys both had a “dog in the fight” and, as businessmen, at least some presence that would make one of these Thai shitheels wind it down.
We, as punters and bar patrons enjoy NO protection whatsoever.
One of the BAD things about the good old days was that about one night every two or three months, somebody would get the living daylights beaten out of him by a gang of “security” guys.
It’s called dog-packing and it’s nasty.
They dog pack. In fact they won’t even get up the nerve to crack you unless they have you surrounded and outnumbered. They’ll just keep coming ’till you’re down and then the guy you may have had words with at the start of it will come in and end it ANY way he sees fit.
We are talking about a Thai douchebag here.
He’ll want to impress his homies with a good show.
You could VERY easily get killed.
IMHO, THAT is the real, actual “Thai boxing”
As far as I’m concerned THAT’S they way Thais fight. You will get dogpacked.
Even if it goes any farther you will not prevail.
Suppose you WIN the brawl.
The cops come: They’ll get your name. Charge you.
And then they’ll flip your particulars to the shitbirds.
You will NEVER be safe.
The cops don’t come: You and where you live will get flipped by one of the girls. (That’s right, one of the girls!)
You will be stalked and very possibly killed by the shitbirds.
The only thing these turds ever had to lose was face. You, a Ferang breaks his face? (Because he wasn’t able to marshal enough of his buddies before you destroyed him and maybe a few of his pals.)
You think he’s going to let the Nana street see THAT go unanswered?
If you lose, if your lucky you’ll end up in Bumrungrad. (that IS if you have a functioning credit card with a 5000 USD limit) BTW your BUPA insurance or most other coverage does NOT cover you for brawling.
In a brawl you can suffer brain damage, lose an eye, get stabbed, beaten with a bat or have your head stomped.
This is usually how young men get killed in brawls. . . this and getting their throats slashed.
There is nothing more pathetic than watching grieving surviving relatives come to Thailand looking for justice for their murdered loved one.
Your death will not even be properly investigated.
Don’t fight in Thailand. (Or ANYWHERE for that matter.)
Your a lover, after all.
Fifty bucks isn’t worth dying for.
Insults from a Thai douchebag aren’t worth dying for.
Walk away.
View all comments by thongsuk
I’m always surprised when I read or hear stories about pain-in-the-ass mamasans, dickhead security guards and the like. I used to think I was just oblivious to it all, but on further reflection I think it’s because (a) I’m a big mutherf****r; and (b) I have a serious, nasty look on my face all the time.
Nobody ever seems to get in my way or give me a problem, and I certainly spend my share of time at Cowboy, Nana, Patpong and the like.
I went in and out of Mango from opening in ‘05 to closing in ‘07 with never a problem, and I am in and out of Mandarin Club weekly.
I once got a bill at a Patpong gogo for 8 bar-girl drinks when I’d ordered only one beer. I stood up, walked to the stairway, turned around, held out 100 baht (which the server accepted) and walked down the stairs. Trapped upstairs by 4 or 5 tough Thai guys it wouldn’t have mattered how big I am unless I was Steven Segal or The Rock. Downstairs I was on even terms.
I’ve met Daywalker, and I can vouch for the fact that he’s about half my height (but about the same width through the chest and shoulders). If he says people were ‘fooking’ with him (as well as Smitty who is not a small boy himself) then I don’t know if its only my bulk, but I just don’t get hassled in Bangkok, even though I read stories on an almost daily basis saying that other people have issues.
Again, maybe I’m just too stupid to know that anyone is fucking with me.
I have only had ONE altercation in Bangkok. I was walking across a sapphan-loi (footbridge) long past midnight. I was very tired and sat to rest. Some Thai guy thought I was passed out and reached in my pocket aiming to relieve me of my wallet and phone. I jumped up and kicked the shit out of him.
I was with a Thai girl who couldn’t stop screaming. The Thai guy managed to rip my shirt, but didn’t do any damage to me personally. The Thai girl decided not to go back to my apartment with me. Scared I guess… I can’t blame her.
If I’d been on the street I’d have probably been killed by a dozen Thais jumping in, but on the sappan loi it was one-on-one and — frankly — the guy was lucky to get away because the TG was pulling me off of him.
I’m old, I’m fat, but I’m a mean bastard. I’m glad I’m not a small guy or these dickheads like the security guards at MC would fuck with me, and with my temper I’d be dead already.
I think because of my size I manage to escape unaccosted by security guards, mamasans and most average dickheads.
Sorry I’m rambling… I believe I may be drunk at the moment. Please… go on about your business.
View all comments by werewolf
I’ve always found whimpering and begging for mercy helps me avoid kicking the shit out of a would-be assailant.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Thongsuk: Well said, also in my home-yountry simply walking a away from a fight-seeking prick usually prevents more hassels. The more this should be done in Thailand. I just need to read the news to know what a loss of face can cause to the “offender”. Remember that 18-year old girl who killed that politician because he allegedly said he has had sex with her? No thanks, I am on vacation, I want fun and enjoy myself.
But when I am drunk it’s also sometimes hard to restrain myself… especially when you try to hold back your anger to let people get away with some shit you would never let them get away with in your home-country. And this shit definitely happens to me more in Thailand than back home. I already saw many tall and big Farangs getting insulted or provoked by Thai guy or girls. Seems like size does not always matter to Thais…
View all comments by Phoenix
I’ve had a similar incident, except we were accused of trying to ditch out on a 1200 baht bill.
They had the thugs circling.
We argued in Thai right off the bat- Thai people often change their mind if they started the rip off in english. Finally, it was solved when our ‘Singaporean’ mate revealed himself to be Thai and told them that the bill had been settled and that trying to take this further would not go anywhere He invited them to get their manager and as he got out his phone to call the police.
Perhaps they thought they could get away with it cos we were pretty intoxicated and not tip shy with the showing girls.
In hind sight, 5 guys arguing over a piddly 1200 was a very stupid fucking idea.I just thought those guys were ‘dek dek’ or the little motorcycle hoons who were just waiting for their girlfriend to give them more money.Laughable that these jerks are the employees of any business.
View all comments by Paul
And that is why i enjoyed the Mango so much, it just didnt have all the drama that follows some of these gogos. Once again management & owners taking charge is important in having a solid business.
I actually never say or was oblivious to these “security” guys. Maybe my eyes were focused on all the hot little thai girls bodies..
GL
View all comments by GoodLife
Reason 1001 to stay away from the entire Nana area.
They hate us.
The girls are disrespctfull, they pad the bills, they employ lowlife thugs, the Thai Police won’t help you, the place is a dump and it’s major terrorist target…..
Tell your friends to boycott the entire Soi.
Hit them where it hurts…in the pocketbook.
View all comments by khun j
@ gl: ” again management & owners taking charge is important in having a solid business” Well said. But here’s the catch for a lot of guys who’d otherwise have battled it out and stayed. The hassles get so silly and so time-consuming that they realize their talents, efforts and entrepreneurial acumen are better served by changing jurisdictions.
The Thais are wonderfully skilled at killing the golden goose.
Their self-serving rationalizations for doing so would render a “not gay, toilet trading” US Republican senator giddy with admiration.
View all comments by thongsuk
Smile?
That’s funny.
My persona is either Steve McQueen in “The Cincinnati Kid” (if ur old enough) or Jason Bourne (4 u youngsters).
Otherwise known as a poker face. Keep ‘em guessing and a little off guard.
View all comments by Jack Dawson
pull up your tighty whiteys over in bkk.if you people cant make a go of it bail.the thais wont eat my lunch.i sold my dinner tickets to the chinese.oil cracked 100 bucks a barrel.alberta canada is a strip show.flush with cash.full of red necks rough necks and no necks.willing to spend cash at your next outlet.regards dmh.
View all comments by frozen in the north
I’m not a big guy myself, but have never had any problems with the guys from Mandarin. I always pushed firmly and politely past them to go to Mango, and ignore their attempts to get me into the Table Dance place when I want to go to Mandarin upstairs.
Maybe I have been lucky - but it does make me wonder if I want to support the Mandarin bar if they employ such people/tactics and refuse to control them.
Anyway - I much more frequently choose Soi Cowboy for a night out - and have never seen any probems there, in more than 2 years of continuous drinking ( well I do stop occassionally !)
View all comments by Cow Boy Old Hand
fin - too cold baby.I will stay put.
The reason I had mentioned the issues we have at the mango was to give people some context about these guys. This would not be the first time I have heard of such behavior. Also to let people know how stupid this whole “thai security guars” situation typically is. I think it is somewhat a nana issue that bars take into their own hands.
In general no one wants to start shit with these guys but it sounds like RRR’s friend was plainly jumped. Which is way wrong.
Mandarin is well aware of their guys starting shit and they should do something about it but who knows how one would make that happen.
View all comments by smitty
Can we all get together and form a ‘Strike Team’?
I wanna be Vic Macky
View all comments by Daywalker
@ smitty - I suppose if your a tourist in town for a night or 2 it’d be a lot easier to come over all ‘chuck liddell’ and drop one of these douches, but if you live in the city its quite a risk.
Mandarin started to get rave reviews just as I headed back to London, and was planning on checking this place out, but im gonna give it a miss. I never pay barfines and drink max of 2 drinks in any gogo before moving on, so im sure my 250baht wont be missed.
View all comments by Penfold
Don’t want to stir this up at all, so please don’t take this the wrong way, but is anyone besides me wondering what we weren’t told about this chain of events?
Beating the crap out of a farang for ฿125 seems a mite unlikely to me.
Was there perhaps a little bit of banter, or a couple of choice Thai/Issan insults bestowed upon the Mandarin staff by our merry gang of revellers? That would probably do it.
Not questioning the story - clearly if the guy got beaten up (and I believe he did), then this is a Very Bad Thing, and totally unacceptable.
It just seems to me like there may be more than meets the eye here. Would be interesting to hear the Mandarin folks’ side of the story. Anyone want to cruise down there and ask them what *they* think happened?
This aside, the first rule of Thailand is of course to do everything possible to avoid fighting a Thai. No Queensbury Rules here, folks. Thongsuk is bang on the money above.
The second rule, unfortunately, is that if you boycott every bar where a friend-of-a-friend once had a problem, you’re going to be spending an awful lot of time sat at home…
View all comments by TAFKABBB
BBB, interesting points. When I during one afternoon at my last stay in the Majestic Suites near Soi Nana I picked up my key at the reception and waited for the elvator I listened to a Farang complaining with the receptionist. He said that he had called in in the morning and was told that if he checked in in the late afternoon (it was 5 pm.m at that time) he would only have to pay half the normal room rate for checking in “late”.
He was very serious and got louder and louder when he was talking, while the receptionist tried to explain him very politely that he would have to pay the full rate (of course!).
IMHO, the Farang was obviously lying just to save around 800 Baht. And he looked like a normal upper middle-class dude who surely had that money. I also got angry when I heard him talking this nonsense and even acting so impolite towards the receptionist. Sometimes the Thais also have to take lots of bullshit from us Farang…
I dont know if that Disgrace-for-other-Farang succeeded, the elavator at the Majestic Suites usually come quick…
View all comments by Phoenix
“Nana could use a good story and apart from the Hollywood comeback on the 3rd floor it would seem Mandarin is the other comeback kid.”
Are we talking the Hollywood with the sterile white interior on the NEP 3rd floor? Saw no or very few customers in there during my last few forays into NEP, and last night they were closed when I went by around midnight. Carousel dek serve next door told me ‘no ladies working there’.
If this refers to the larger bar, the Carousel, it’s always had fun service staff, and a decent shower show. However, last night, they had a Thai male doing a magic show on the main stage for about 20 minutes. Unique, but not what most customers hope to see when they enter a gogo bar.
BTW, the Carousel dek serve told me her boss was planning to rent the former Big Mango space, put a bar on the 1st level and ST rooms upstairs. You can’t put much credence on rumours from BGs, but an interesting tidbit.
On the subject of Thai males with non-essential functions (door greeters, dek-serves, toilet attendants, etc.) in farang bars, I generally give these a pass. Remember the aggressive boy touts who lounged outside Erotica? Useless Maengdas!
View all comments by DJ
I’ve actually had a lot of fun tormenting the pimps/boyfriends outside of Erotica.
I’d smile at them whenever they used to stop me; as if their incredible powers of persuasion had convinced me to enter the bar.
I’d stop at the door and declare to the door girl in English that “Gosh” it really did look to me as if they had enough handsome men around. . . . that since Thai men were so much more handsome and much more fun than ferangs and that I thought I might try somewhere where there were no men. Or I’d say that “Golly” (again) it was true what I’d seen on the “eentaneht” (that there were more men than women on the door at this bar. But sollee I want a bar with women. Only women.
They’re truly dumb fucks. They never got it.
These lazy good-for-nothing peckerwoods understand about as much English as the “hello-DVD/VCD/seck-moovie”guys on Silom.
The door girls being seasoned whores understand heaps of English and get the play perfectly. (”But no habv monee” was actually the answer to my Thai man remark
So I’d just leave it to them to spell out the situation for their lazy fuckwit pimp boyfriends.
Since that bar often had NO customers at all somebody finally made the connection between the fart-stain pimp uncle/boyfriends and “0″ business.
Anyway, there seems to be fewer of these useless cunts loitering around that landing these days.
Perhaps a similar “campaign” would trigger a decrease in Mandarin “security”. Just play it straight before going upstairs or over to RB4
Takes a little time but hey, I’m up for ANYTHING that fucks these guys up
View all comments by thongsuk
DJ: “BTW, the Carousel dek serve told me her boss was planning to rent the former Big Mango space”
Yup, that would fit the mo for the kind of business decisions this owner makes. Let’s see, first we have turning Hollywood white, then we have Friday BBQ’s at Hollywood, then we have turning the Aircons half on at Carousel to save electricity, then we have the After Hours club on Soi 1 that failed…About a week ago I went to Hollywood and it had 0 customers. Then went to Carousel and it was just a shell of it’s former self.
I know I sound negative but I actually want the bloke to succeed. I visited his After Hours club on soi 1 numerous times to give it biz as I was hoping for another AH alternative. I also try and get to Hollywood and Carousel because there aren’t many great choices in Nana and they’ve been great in the past. Heck, I may even try the short time rooms if he opens them up. If he does well it’s better for all of us. He’s just not doing well.
View all comments by pmmp
@pmmp: “He’s just not doing well.”
All is not lost for this 3rd floor man
Word is that DTR is doing a Go-Go Bar Management 101 at the Skills Exchange in one of the local Rajaputs (with a minor in, like, web design and Blogalism 101)
(Now I could be wrong about this because I usually AM about most of this stuff some of the time but that’s, like, what I probably heard from somebody, who, like knows EVERYTHING
View all comments by thongsuk
There is no such word as Blogalism. ;D
View all comments by werewolf
bbb - I hear you but the email comes from someone I trust and given my run-ins with these guys I do not find the story over the top. The person who wrote the email reads the blog and may chime in. Let’s just say the customer was wrong. He forgot to pay his bill and he argued over it. Still the outcome is way wrong.
dj - Carousel is the one but it is hit and miss. Sometimes I go in and it is mostly naked and rocking. Other times you get the half naked thai guy show. Which is just horrible.
He may be after the mango but I doubt he will get away running short time rooms since the other 2 places running rooms will have something to say about it. They pay a lot of money for having the the lock on the 2 short time places.
Anyway I am with pmmp here. the guy should try making what he has works. So far his record in bkk is not so stellar.
ts - killing me. dying here.
View all comments by smitty
TS - Your essay on the Thai maengda boys manning the doors at the farang bars perfectly mirrows my reactions to these leeches. Currently down in Pattaya, and the Walking Street gogos are infested with them. I’ve tried similar ploys to let them know they have no functional use at these bars, but they smile stupidly and assume they are making progress in coercing me inside.
For bar owners/managers: If a farang bar needs Thai male security staff, then keep them in the background, and UNDER F*#@KING CONTROL.
PMMP - I forgot to mention the sauna conditions inside the Carousel, even on one of the coolest nights of this season. Maybe it makes the customers thirstier :).
Smitty - The Raja landlords have foolishly wasted steady rental revenue during these past few months. Starting a new bar in NEP just as high-season is ending would be poor timing at best.
View all comments by DJ
The Mandarin used to have rooms on the top floor. Had a look once when the French manager showed me around. Very nice they were too. But that was a while ago. Since then there’s been at least one change of owner, several layout changes, and the second floor was even closed for a while (I know it’s now open and will be taking a look). I don’t know if the s/t rooms were ever used or for how long, or if they were forced to stop by the other places.
View all comments by Bangkok Barry
BBB : Sadly there is no more than a 125bahts bill disagrement to the story.
To give you guys more details :
in advance sorry english isn’t my native language
New year’s eve : after partying in an Ekkamai nightclub with a group of expats friends we decided to go to the mandarin to finish the night ( some of my friends are regulars of the place and they had mostly good things to say about it. )
So we arrive there order a few bottles mingle with a few girls ect… ( not me my GF was there
).
The victim goes to the bar and orders a vodka on the side, he pays for it quickly because he doesn’t want to add it to the big common bill ( fair enough ).
I saw him pay, at least half of the group saw him pay.
The waitress comes to get his empty glass, two minutes later one of the mamasan comes with the 125 bahts vodka bill and ask him to pay for it.
The victim refuses and explain that he already settled that bill.
Without insisting too much the mamasan let us be.
Few minutes later the victim goes to the bathroom.
At about the same time I pack my stuff, wish a good night to everyone and leave the place with my gf.
Right at the door we see the victim getting beat by the mandarin “security”. My gf screams something in thai and I go grab my friend.
There is blood all over him, he has some nasty cuts on the face, and has no idea of what just happened.
The only thing he said to me was “what do they want?”
A guy of the staff explain to me that “my friend you not pay his bill”, I ask how much and he shows me the 125bahts receipt.
My gf talk with him and ask if there is anything else, he says no.
I go back inside, tell the story to my friends and pay the bill.
Once outside of the plaza waiting for a taxi ( when you are full of blood it’s hard to find one ) a freelancer asked me about the situation and advised me to “go away very quickly, now dangerous for you here”.
The victim had money in his pocket and would give everything without blinking to avoid a beating…
Now the mandarin management tell the curious that he was “known for not paying his bills in many bars of the plaza”.
He never goes there, he accepted to come because it was new year’s eve…
View all comments by RRR
@RRR: Thanks. I just wondered if there’d been some slagging, name-calling or anything between the dispute and the beating. I don’t understand the point of kicking the crap out of a customer over a 125 baht bill.
If your friend had called the waitress, mamasan, security guy or whoever a ‘ban nok buffalo f*cker’ or something, in earshot of others, then it’d be a totally different story - cf. the last night at the Mango when one of the girls declared that she had to kill one of the other girls due to some perceived loss of “face”.
Whilst still patently ludicrous, the above at least fits in with the Thai way.
Sounds like there wasn’t anything of the sort though. Scary stuff.
View all comments by TAFKABBB
RRR, would it have been better in such a situation to call the police and let them take measures against those thugs or was the “taxi-option” the better way in your opinion? I have always asked myself what I would do if things get out of hand and dont have a good answer till now .
View all comments by Phoenix
One burning concern I have with most ‘tales of expats’ is that….well, does anyone have anything positive to say about Thai men?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen and encountered my fair share of shitbag low-class jackasses looking to roll people for money, start fights with the slightest provocation, and approach every situation with one hand clenched in a fist and the other outstretched for money, but….seriously-where’s the other side? I swear every anecdote is “The asshole Thai bouncer”, or “The corrupt cop”, “The freeloading boyfriend” and so on and so forth. I both accept and sympathize with RRR’s tale, but still-next to the ugly bribe-seeking mamasan, is there a more vilified figure than the average Thai man in these parts? Seems as good a soapbox as any to ask…
View all comments by Maomak
I won’t be frequenting that place any time soon.
I never went to the Mango, so I never experienced the doormen on the way there.
I have obviously walked past them before getting to the next floor, but I’ve never noticed them. I always notice the girls hanging around outside..
I will however be paying more attention to the doormen in future.
Regarding calling the police; I think when in that scenario the first thing someone wants is to get the fuck outta dodge.
Only in hindsight do you think, maybe I should have done this, that.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket
phoenix: Sure, it’s pretty scary and depending on your situation you may just want to forget about it, but if you want to take action call 1155 and get the tourist police over. Then get a lawyer.
maomak: Because most of us face the lower life sex industry thai men the experiences are generally bad. If you throw in Motorci guys, tuk tuk drivers, men in brown, your experiences might also be bad. However, I have mixed with other “classes” and have met some great guys. A lawyer, a contractor, and a maintenance guy are amongst that group. Great people.
View all comments by pmmp
Yeah, that makes sense. I, on the other hand, seldom make it during ‘working hours’ down to Nana, Cowboy, etc., so mostly encounter uh….’normal’ Thai guys amongst my friends, so I guess it’s a knee-jerk thing when I hear about the things you all put up with.
So I’ll continue to live vicariously through the ‘kokosphere (copyright BBB) and enjoy. I’d contribute more, but “Drank whiskey at RCA for the fifth week in a row listening to Thai rock” isn’t that informative/entertaining. Happy New Year!
View all comments by Maomak
A bit of elementary psychology, not that you streetwise toughs need it, but avoiding eye contact with Thai men is a pretty useful way to avoid their attention, be they touts, thugs, tuk-tuk drivers or whatever. This wouldn’t have helped in this instance, but it’s a good trick. You’re aware of them, but don’t give them the eye-contact hook. You can breeze through Patpong with this simple technique. Don’t meet their eyes, don’t respond. Avoid.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Maomak:
I can (but won’t) regale you with dozens of stories about great encounters with Thai guys. I will share a few with minimal details.
I was at a restaurant/bar in Cha’am (beach town near Hua Hin). There was a live band with 4 guys in it. I was there with 8 people and the beer was flowing freely. When the band stopped playing at midnite I paid my bill and left. I walked a block or two, and a large 4WD pulled up beside me — the guys in the band. They invited me to join them at a club in Hua Hin. I agreed, hopped in and off we went. At the club:
* One of the band members saw me without a drink (i didn’t realize my cover charge included a free one) and got my beer for me.
* Same guy then asked me if I like girls, and when I said yes, he brought two stunning uni girls over, introduces them and asks if I’d like to have one of them for an hour or so. I agreed and got well and truly fucked by one of the stunners, which the TG took care of.
* I got totally wasted, and couldn’t find the guys in the band; when the lights came on I sat and talked to some other people. It would have been easy for the guys to go home and not worry about me. Instead they found me and drove me back to Cha’am, dropping me at my hotel.
I did nothing for these guys… didn’t even tip them during the night.
One night I was on a motorbike and saw a dozen Thai guys drinking beer and whiskey. They saw me and decided to practice English, calling “hello, how are you?” I pulled over and they offered to share the drinks with me. We spent an hour chatting while I drank their beer.
One night at Titanium bar, the All girl band finished playing at midnight. When they went out of the club, they stopped at the little whiskey cart in the alley to have some 10-baht shots of whiskey. I wanted to ask a question of one of the girls. The security guy on the door took me over and introduced me to the girls so I could ask the girl a question (no I wasn’t trying to get laid). After the girls left, the I offerd to buy a whiskey shot for the security guy and his pal. He said okay, and soon the motorcy taxi rider (who owns the whiskey cart) showed up, and the three Thai guys and I talked together (mix or Thai & English) until 2 am. I bought 4 or 5 rounds of whiskey shots, but the Titanium guy brought me two cold Heinekens for free. It was one of the most enjoyable nights I can remember… truly sanuk.
So, security guys, motorcycle drivers, university students, musicians — and one memorable evening — a gaggle of ladyboys have all shown me their good, generous, positive side.
I’ve shared several bottles of whiskey and dozens of bottles of beer with Thai men from motocy drivers to directors of Siam Cement. Invariably I have enjoyed the encounters. Numerous times the guys have either actually fixed me up with a girl, or offered to do so (the most recent being at the Pent Club about a month ago when a Thai guy, who used to live in Australia was so excited that I had lived in Sydney that he offered, first, to buy me a bottle of whiskey, and when I told him I was a club member, offered to have me choose any hostess in the bar as my companion for the evening and put it on his bill).
I have no ‘bad’ stories for the other side of the ledger aside from the pickpocket story related in an earlier comment. I get along great with Thai guys.
Perhaps I’m oblivious, stupid, niaive, lucky or blind but I just don’t experience all the problems that I hear about daily on the internet. Basically, I’m pretty content here in Bangkok… just me and my rose coloured glasses.
I’d suggest that stories like smitty & pmmp’s post midnight tuk tuk driving experience are good examples of how to get along with Thai guys. A guy who’ll let you drive his tuk tuk can’t be all bad!
Also, I’m a regular at Mandarin Club and I’ve been treated well there on every visit by the dancers, the mamasan and the pull girls. They all have a sense of humour and a sense of fun. I have never had any interaction — positive or negative — with the male security there.
It’s difficult to reconcile the story from RRR that he shared on this site and the Dean Barrett site this week with my own experiences at Mandarin Club over the past six months.
View all comments by werewolf
WW, so true. I just imagine of what Asian tourists might think of Farang men when they go to redlight districts back in The World.
All “normal” Asian men I met so far, mainly in Thailand, China and Taiwan, all were decent people and same as you, I can’t count anymore all the drinks and meals I was invited to. Asians are usually very generous people… just sad that most of us Farang don’t meet such people… no surprise if they don’t get out of the redlight districts in BKK or elsewhere.
View all comments by Phoenix
Too bad with all the BS at Mandarin and Nana Plaza in general. I love that plump little service girl at Mandarin named Ink. Took her out once and she exclaims “not so big” when talking about her flat chest. LOL.
View all comments by Mark
“Also, I’m a regular at Mandarin Club and I’ve been treated well there on every visit by the dancers, the mamasan and the pull girls. They all have a sense of humour and a sense of fun. I have never had any interaction — positive or negative — with the male security there.
It’s difficult to reconcile the story from RRR that he shared on this site and the Dean Barrett site this week with my own experiences at Mandarin Club over the past six months.”
Exactly my opinion before this incident, if you look for my older comments you will find quite a few recommendations for the place.
I’m afraid your opinion may change after the first interaction with the male staff.
View all comments by RRR
On the premise of dealing with Thai men let’s look at where this all took place. NEP. Anymore than the girls who work there are not examples of average Thai girls - these men that work around the plaza are not examples of average Thai men. Not even close. Our maintenance guy who has worked for us for 2.5 years is amazing. Would do anything for us and is amazingly trustworthy. He can’t stand most of the Thais working in and around the plaza. Most people can’t really. This is pretty much the lowest of the rung for places to work for Thai men.
I have been out with plenty of upper middle class and average working Thais and they are all pretty cool. Easy to get along with and are not prone to wanting to kick some ass. This was new year’s eve and I am sure along with the customers the Thai security guys were drunk as well. Not an excuse but just a fact.
This is not a call to boycott Mandarin since I don’t think it will mean anything. This is just a story of reality in Thailand. It could have happened in other places but let’s hope it is not a regular occurrence. I think it was totally uncalled for and unwarranted but that does not make it any less possible. I still say if this happens one should try to get to the police. I understand that one may just want to get out but there is no later recourse if one does not get to the police. Also - never take matters into your own hands as a form of recourse. That will get u killed.
View all comments by smitty
Many years ago a travelling acquaintance of mine - we had been hanging out for a couple of weeks - was randomly attacked by a Thai guy whilst we were leaving a late night restaurant on Khao San Road.
He was taking a beating and I waded in to help, punching and kicking the Thai. Within a few seconds my so called mate was legging it down the road and I was alone faced with the Thai and a gang of several of his friends who had appeared from nowhere.
A placatory palms up gesture whilst backing slowly away seemed to do the trick, as their apparent leader gave me a ‘OK you’re safe’ nod and took his group away. I suppose it might have been that we were right outside the cop shop. But I think I was very lucky.
View all comments by Combover
Luckier than the Canadian tourist getting shot dead by a pissed-up plainclothes cop yesterday.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Was talking to a girl who works at Mandarin tonight who told me a Farang “rang the bell” recently but when it was time to pay he had no money and everyone had to pay for their drink of cola - 110 baht.
What happened I asked? “Muay Thai” Seems reasonable. She wasn’t working over New Year so couldn’t shed any light on the other incident.
View all comments by Know so
Know so: Reasonable? How about making the proposition to accompany him to the nearest ATM machine to get some cash? But ringing the bell at a go-go is really kinda stupid… even if you have the money.
View all comments by Phoenix
if we ever had someone not be able to pay at the mango we would go with them to the atm or take a phone or something valuable hoping they would come back for it. They always did. If it was a regular we would let them pay next time. no drama.
View all comments by smitty
Reasonable meant with sarcasm………But then I thought that 110 baht will probably come out of pocket in the long run as that girl and myself are somewhat entwined. Why though would you charge the staff full price for some shitty cola that they didn’t want in the 1st place. On the other hand said girl likes working there
as quotas are fair and reasonable unlike her last bar- Baccara. Which was probably not for her as she wont go with Japanese as they remind her of her father. hmmm
Smitty: No drama. That’s what I like. Only got to your bar a few times
but enjoyed them all.
View all comments by know so
ks - if you are saying that management made the girls pay for the drink because the customer did not - then I guess that is their policy. Seems a little harsh to me since not the girls fault. Some bars are like this. In the pub for instance if say a draft beer is misorderd - we make our service people pay for it but they can drink it later. For the ladydrink issue we were pretty easy on our girls unless it was a chronic issue. We wanted our girls happy and to stay put at the mango.
View all comments by smitty
I ecco the thoughts there
Making the BG pay 110baht for a shotglass of no-brand cola which prob cost something on the thin side of 5 baht is pretty shocking.
Granted if she ballsed up an order, maybe she should pay the cost price to the bar for the drink/bottle to make sure the bar doesnt loose out
Maybe she could take this matter up with the trade union?
View all comments by Penfold
Yes agree.
Smitty Re: Mandarin. Doesn’t a farang run that place? If so why isn’t he doing a bit of P.R here and other places on the net? What’s he like? I took my friend there to check the place out because she wanted to change bars. She told me that she couldn’t go by herself into Baccara to check it out before she started working there. Only stayed 3 days as she loathed it. Didn’t go much on it myself. Different stokes I guess.
View all comments by know so
january 2005, i had a run-in with mandarin security.
i met up with the only 2 mandarin girls i’d ever barfined (one an ex-mandarin dancer, and the other a still-employed hostess there) for drinks in the bar, and they were filming with a sony camcorder. the ex-dancer brought along her brother (a “real” brother no less, as in, same parents).
the dancers on stage got pissed (understandably) that somebody was filming in the bar, but handled it the thai way: when she (the ex-dancer) went to the bathroom, they attacked her as a group and kicked the shit out of her. the brother noticed something was up and went to help his sister. that’s when the mandarin security boys jumped in and started beating the brother. note: i never saw the brother do anything other than try to pick his sister off the ground and get her out of the bar.
the hostess (off-duty that night, had paid her own barfine) and i dragged brother & sister out, but eventually the staff followed and i ended up physically restraining a mandarin security guy on soi 4 just beyond big dogs, holding him back from the brother.
which of course resulted in lots of thai people (mostly mandarin gogo dancers who’d followed) yelling at me to stay out of it, that it was a thai thing (looking back, with a little more thailand experience under my belt, i have to say that if it happened today, i’d have left NEP at the first sign of trouble and not risked anything — if thai people want to beat each other, have at it, not my problem).
while i was holding the thai guy (10 years of wrestling in my youth), an all-out brawl was developing between the mandarin people and the friends of the hostess/ex-dancer/brother — evidently they were connected to some not-so-nice people in the area too. then police showed up in numbers and broke everything up. at the word of the mandarin employees, they arrested the brother and let him go an hour later. they ignored me.
only brother & sister were hurt, and nothing too serious. the hostess was afraid to ever go back to work and moved on to work at morning night bar.
but left a bad taste in my mouth regarding mandarin security.
View all comments by fountainhead
ks - it is a farang who owns the place. a dad and his 2 sons but they only come around to pick up the money and such. U see them hanging at shark a lot.
f - that is the scary thing. this is like the 3rd story I have heard about these punks.
View all comments by smitty
Is Thongsuk really Prufrock formerly of Bangkok Bad Boy and Mangosauce? The avatar is the same. Does anybody know where “Dicer” is posting now that BBB has retired from blogging his conquests? I always enjoyed reading his comments (the parts I could understand).
View all comments by kwai mai sabai
Seems DJ may have heard right about the Hollywood-Carousel owner vying for the old Big Mango location. I saw him with our old landlords today in their tailor shop downstairs and by the way he dresses there’s no way he’s in there buying a suit. Looks like the old location may come alive again.
View all comments by pmmp