The long-term Bangkok residents and visitors are always telling we Johnny-come-latelies that we should have been here in the old days. That Bangkok, and indeed Thailand, while still enjoyable, is merely a shadow of its former self.
This website’s coming up to its first birthday, and even in that time things have changed. Let’s look at Nana Plaza, as I’ve been spending a lot of time there recently. Other areas will follow.
Rainbow Rules
The Rainbow bars are the best bars in Nana, and in terms of sheer talent are possibly the best gogo bars in Bangkok. Even Rainbow 3, which was for so long the ugly ginger step-child of the group, has recently taken on a batch of real beauties.
The downside is the attitude and the prices. There’s no audience participation, and it’s a very business-like environment - you point out the girl you like, and if she’s interested she will accept a drink and quote you (probably) ฿2,000 for short-time. There’s still a pro-Japanese bias, but if you want a beautiful short-time girl, and don’t mind paying for quality, these bars have to be first choice. If anything, they’ve improved over the last twelve months - no mean feat.
Everything Changes
In terms of real changes, we had Pretty Lady closed for months on end, but it’s now open again and slowly but surely returning to its former glory. You do have to throw a few tequilas around for best results, but it’s probably worth it if you get a few fun girls around you. There’s certainly more on show here than anywhere else in the Plaza.
Meanwhile, the old Spanky’s and Hog’s Breath Saloon bars were bought, gutted and combined into the new Spanky’s. The owner’s obviously spent a lot of money, but unfortunately - like so many Nana bars - they’ve scrimped on the salaries, so there aren’t many beauties to be found. It doesn’t matter how many light rigs, laser beams or crystal ornaments your bar has - if there aren’t any cute girls, punters will go elsewhere.
Mandarin has come on in leaps and bounds, but it has good and bad nights. Catch it on a good night, and you’ll have a whale of a time. Next door, Silver Dragon is closed for remodelling. I’ve yet to hear anything about when they might be re-opening. Wait and see.
The Decline of Erotica
Surely the biggest loser of the past twelve months is Erotica bar. Recently featured in Bangkok Eyes, Erotica was still a terrific bar less than a year ago. But after its farang manager disappeared in a hurry, it’s gone downhill fast.
Last time I visited, I was set upon by one of the many ladyboys now employed by the bar (clearly visible in the Bangkok Eyes photos), and made the mistake of trying to be polite. Instead of telling her that I didn’t like ladyboys, and running the risk of a confrontation, I thought I’d try to use humour to diffuse the situation and told her that I like my girls without dicks.
“No problem”, she smiled - and stuffed my hand down her knickers, proving quite conclusively that she was indeed a katoey of the post-operative variety. Thanks. Add to that the fact that upstairs is always closed, and that the few remaining genuine females are hardly worth looking at, and you have a crap bar.
Crowning the Katoeys
Pretty much every Crown Group bar (Lollipop, Voodoo, Hollywood Rock, G-Spot, Fantasia, Carnival) now seems to feature (mostly post-op) ladyboys alongside the regular (mostly ugly) girls. There is really no need for this. Please cease.
Angelwitch
Angelwitch lost their one truly stunning showgirl as Noi left to settle down with her man. Fair enough. But whilst the remaining showgirls are reasonably cute, the regular gogo girls are mostly a rough bunch, the mamasans are drink-begging irritants, and the shows are *yawn* well, you know all about the shows by now - they’ve been running without variation for long enough… Still always packed though, so they’re obviously doing something right.
Everywhere Else
Ladyboys aren’t my thing, so I can’t really comment on whether Casanova, Cascade, Obsession and Temptations offer any more to the discerning fan of venuses-with-penises than a year ago. Casanova corner is still way too aggressive though. It’s a rare occasion when I manage to walk past without being forcibly groped. Is this really good for business?
The other gogo bars all suck, although Playskool has a decent but irregular lesbian show - worth seeing if you’re lucky enough to catch it. The Cathouse has no cute girls and no customers (although contrary to Bangkok Eyes’ latest, it hasn’t closed down) - the Big Mango is clearly the choice of the beer bars, with friendly girls, big screen sports, cheap drinks and some great food.
I used to love the Hollywood Carousel (unless my drunken stupors in there have messed with my head) my usual squeeze used to work (or still does) in there. She certainly wasn’t a chick with a dick. I always thought the waitress girls in there where far better than the dancers. l certainly don’t remember seeing a ladyboy in there the last time I was there (Jan/Feb 2007). Have I got mixed up?
Ladyboy bars can be great fun even for those who don’t want to shag them. Leave your homophobia at the door and have a crack (no, not that kind). It’s a great way to inject some different laughs into the night. 30-60 minute visits are about my limit though, then it can become a bit much. If you want to be left alone, then pick one, and get shim to sit with you, and you don’t seem to get hassled by the lot then.
Mandarin Bar, mmmmm. Lots of my fellow rotters like it there. Not a fan myself. I booted out a Mandarin girl (nicely of course) from my hotel room because it wasn’t working out. Lads, don’t take the girl who smokes menthol fags out, she may turn you on with the ear licking, but it’s like shagging Dot Cotton after a few Polo mints!
View all comments by meister
You’re sounding jaded BBB.
Remember those halcyon days, when all the bars were so full of excitement and thrilling promise, and even if you didn’t go to bed with a little brown spinner pounding away on top of you, you were lulled to sleep by with images of a thousand swaying hardbodies in flourescent white bikinis?
Time to hit Eden Club obviously.
View all comments by Combover
Or hit Pattaya this weekend instead, of course.
View all comments by Combover
Stripped down to it’s essentials, BBB, ten to fifteen years ago, in Nana Plaza, the only men to be found were the CUSTOMERS.
The girls and women simply out-numbered the men .
Thai males dared not come in unless on business.
That was more or less it.
Now we have these hordes of young Thai men/pimp/boyfriends/cousins/uncles
cruising the girls as well. These parasites hang around all but the most well-run bars in Nana. Their sole purpose seems to be to rob punters of the momentary fleeting illusion that this “GFE” f*ck might be something more than ‘love for sale” Kinda takes the fun out of it before ya pop. That’s not the idea, is it.
The pimp-friends serve to make the punter feel like what he actually, in effect, IS…. a source of income for the Thai male. (It actually sometimes used to be for the family, no shit, BBB)
Anyway, maybe it’s just a problem I have? Not really.
An immature outlook? An intemperate character? But tell me what punter needs Thai men to remind them where the money’s really going. A lot of all seasoned, older professional bar girls who have good deals with good sponsors and husbands will tell you the same. “The work has gone to shit. The girls are mud-hens for the most part.” They’re right.
These gals will tell you this with the disdain of the professional soldier revisiting the field of battle. It’s self-serving to a certain degree, but it’s accurate.
It used to be possible to bar-fine and short-time (BTW the “time” was up to YOU, back then) a rascal without encountering ONE Thai male (except for the odd katoey) in the two-ing and froe-ing to the ST joint.
I suppose that one of Angelwitch’s attractions is that these Thai vermin-boys are NOT to be found hanging like chirping bats, less so the Raindow joints with their battalions of off-duty cops herding the gals around the bar’s entrance. And Erotica? and Mercury ? Well that’s what actually killed those places. The packs of pandering Toms and pimps trying to pull one into a place with their “hello welcome deht-ling” shit is not an experience I wish to repeat on a regular basis.
Angelwitch, as little as 4 1/2 years ago was awesome (a few times a year was enough, though)
So were most of the others.
That’s all changed.
And that’s everywhere.
But as you say, there are OTHER venues and there are what we used to call the “normans” and they are MUCH friendlier and MORE accessible than in the past because they too are “sick to PUKE” of useless Thai men.
Fifteen years ago (and BTW we DID have colour film back then, and Cinemascope and IMAX as well) there was only ONE Katoey bar, Casanova. Thai males were by and large fucking BANNED from the plaza.
Now, by “virtue” of the katoeys, the boyfriends, the “delivery boys” who never go away after they’ve made their deliveries,”waiters” and the other species of hangers-on, there is more MALE presence in this swirling toilet-like complex of Nana Plaza.
When you count all the men; the katoeys, the customers and the boyfriends and the pimps and all the male Thai scum that clings to the place now, Nana Plaza is a total shit hole where the MEN now OUTNUMBER the women.
Less so in Cowboy and the Pong.
I’ve gone on a bit too much at times about the horrific service and the greedy mamasan scams and the general shit that has taken over from what used to be a kind of sexual Disneyland.
Others might disagree. (F*ck what AM I saying ;-?
These others might actually ENJOY practicing their “wais” to a “mamasan” in a whorehouse as they show their visiting friends that while their Thai is shit they “they know the Thai customs.” (BTW Wai-ing ANYONE in a god damned brothel is nothing short of pathetic.)
I won’t bore you with it a moment longer, except to say that there was actually almost an etiquette or at least a style about it all in place” back then”.
These days its ALL about the money and how stupid they can make us look in front of their friends when we part with it.
You know as well as I, there’s other places to get laid this is STILL Bangkok after all.
View all comments by Prufrock
@meister: Carousel has been half-empty recently. The right-hand stage, and the cage over the bar have been sat unused while the remaining (and ropey-looking) “girls” all cavort around the left-hand stage. It’s gone downhill.
@Combover: I wondered about that myself. Sure, when you’re an FOB, everything is shiny and exciting. I’ve tried my best to allow for that. Some Nana bars have really improved in only a year, which is great. Others have stagnated or got way worse. This is all one man’s opinion, of course…
@Prufrock: Wow, that was quite a rant. The soapie massage parlours generally have papasans rather than (or as well as) mamasans - is that an issue too, or is the problem simply the invasion of utopia by the unwanted XY variety of Thai?
Angelwitch has at least one male member of service staff (I’m not including Matt, Dave & the DJs!), and does sometimes have a few Thai guys loitering outside. Not bashing Angelwitch, just correcting a minor point. On the other side of things, Nana Plaza’s “security” staff have always been male, to the best of my knowledge. With you on the “wai”s in the bars though - always cracks me up!
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Utopia?
. . . more or less the way god intended it to be when he first came up with the bordello business model. . . . A properly run and most enjoyable nest of whores, it was.
Naw.
Just laying out the fairly observable, measurable, assessable, notion that in Nana Plaza, back then as compared to now, the women easily out-numbered the men and I liked it better that way
It no longer is that.
Far from it, now and everyone knows it.
Combover got some of it when he placed it with the punters but he was WILLING to share the blame around AS WELL.
The security lads (rarely needed, incidentally, back then “but always willing to help out”) were always well out of sight.
That’s not what you get at Rainbow 4 now with the whole gang or them hanging around the door. And I just prefer not to see them interacting with the girls.
Makes it too obvious when you see a girl smirk/sneer to her cop gik as she’s heading out of Rainbow 4 for a 3k short-time with Yoshi or Nigel.
Nothing to do with papasans in soapies, or Matt’s sqeeze’s extended family. But if there are Thai male loiterers out front of Anglewitch , (Spanky’s detritus perhaps?) it’s the start of a slippery slope and a warning to management.
(Dave-it Rave-it? Are you the man to Save-it?)
And these girls working now? C’mon BBB. Some of these women just should not be taking off their clothes under ANY circumstances.
I’d also have to say that the internet (seven years common usage) and the mobile phone (about eleven years common usage) have dramatically altered the scene.
The hotties have these options they didn’t have before and they most definitely use them. “Stuck in the bar” doesn’t mean what it used to mean.
Just my impressions.
View all comments by Prufrock
@BBB: Buggar, that used to be one of my favourite bars. Is it really that bad now? As I said most of the dancers were never up to much but some of the serving staff were crackers! Obviously my squeeze is up-country with her mum, knitting me a jumper, or getting hard cock (yes I know it’s that one!).
“I’d also have to say that the internet (seven years common usage) and the mobile phone (about eleven years common usage) have dramatically altered the scene.”
Prufrock, next visit I’m ripping up the T1 lines and driving tuk-tuks into the masts!
View all comments by meister
@meister: I got a report recently that Carousel was having a great night. Completely the opposite of my past few visits. I guess it’s just the luck of the draw. I’ll be back soon, of course…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - this isn’t Mango Sauce.
If you want to call each other names, do it somewhere else. This site’s about the bars and bargirls of Bangkok…
[3 comments deleted]
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Most of you guys who have blogs always say it pathetic to wai people in Go-go bars but I don’t totally agree. I don’t do it in many bars but there are a few with good mamasans who take good care of you, never ask for a drink and are friendly without being… well troublesome. So When I go in and the Mamasan Wai’s me I Wai back. Am I suppose to ignore her wai. Of course not. Horses for Courses rights. There are some girls who I have know for 3 years or so past the fucking point and just friends, a couple Wai me so I wai back. Let me know what you think.
View all comments by Young Royal
Oh, you’re getting into complex territory there. One is not supposed to wai service staff, but then it’s also rude not to return a wai. “Up to you”, I guess.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Great comment YR. I have always wondered this myself.
We were actually talking to a papasan at Posieden once about 4 years ago. I was there with Thai people from work and we were having dinner before we adjourned for some services. I noticed none of the Thais wai’d the girls so I asked. They politely told me that they would not wai a girl in a situation where she is basically functioning as a working girl or prostitute if u like. Then they asked why the Farang would go into a go go bar and wai working girls like it was the cool thing to do. So then I felt funny about it all. So like YR - I only wai good friends. Most of the times though, at the massage places, I notice the girls do not wai me. Meaning I think they know that is not the place for wai’ing. Anyway. I am going to see if I can get a good answer from an old timer here.
No offense to the bargirl scene but I don’t look to them for examples of good thai or the right customs. Anymore than I would learn english from someone who did not graduate say 8th grade in the US. So many of the girls being from Isaan and not finishing school are not my idea of the people who know the right or wrong thing to do in most cases. But I do have some fun with them though…
View all comments by Smitty
One of the girls I Wai just told me that if someone Wai’s you and you dont return it. It means that you feel you are totally superior. Its very bad kind of like your a big headed w*nker in her words, but I couldn’t quite get if she was also saying it could be possible that someone has the right to not Wai back.
Well I just learnt that you shouldn’t Wai service staff. It always seemed right to Wai your good friends.
Would be great to get a clear explination Smitty
View all comments by Young Royal
It’s not necessary to return wais from those who are very junior to you in age or status. For example, I teach at a local school and I have been told that I don’t have to return wais to the kindergarten kids but I should return wais to to 11-12 year olds I teach because they are almost adults. You very rarely see Thais returning wais to serving staff in, for example, restaurants.
On the other hand, once when I was in a club in Tonglor (I think it was “My Place”) with a big pooyai (he was Chairman of the National Housing Association) it was noticeable that he returned wais to everybody, even the tarts. Mind you, he was a real gentleman and one of the most well mannered people I have ever met.
The more junior person should initiate the wai. It’s enormously embarrassing for a Thai to be wai’ed by someone senior to them first, it suggests they have failed to show the proper respect. These days I only initiate wais when I am quite sure it’s correct.
Finally, most Thais appreciate that farangs don’t really understand the etiquette of wai’ing so the worse that can happen is that you look a bit foolish. But this is really only par for the course in the LOS.
View all comments by Guy Dow